Why does the shovel have low durability compared to other melee weapons? - r/projectzomboid (2024)

r/projectzomboidu/Fox_Bird4d ago

It breaks pretty fast compared to other melee weapons. Shouldn't it have the same durability as the fire axe?

6 Upvotes

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u/Nerubim4d ago

A shovel is not meant to endure the impact you create by bashing with the flat side on everyones head and not with the edge on dirt. The axe however is specifically made for that motion towards material with similiar hardness so both the blade and handle can endure quiet a lot.

6

u/Nearby_Record_17334d ago

so if you exclusively stabbed with a shovel it would theoretically last longer?

9

u/Nerubim4d ago

Theoretically if we got a spear mode yes, but practically I assume digging into flesh and bone with the edge of the shovel will be much less damaging unless we could sharpen the edges and/or add a teeth-like pattern through metalworking. Since we can't do that it only makes sense to smash them with the flat part and just accept the low durability.

u/NandabunZombie Killer3d ago

You could sharpen a shovel with a rock.

2

u/VigilanceRex4d ago

If you stabbed in a motion similar to a spear, yeah it would last much longer theoretically. Not as long as an actual spear, but longer than using it as a blunt weapon.

I wonder if someone has made a mod with that in mind yet

2

u/Andre273d ago

It would definitely last longer than any crafted spear even with tools attached. Id say with that motion it should have a similar if not greater durability to the garden fork.

1

u/Perfect-Musician63833d ago

Hello I was looking for a comment like this in this thread
Melee weapon overhaul
You cant put the shovel into a spear position but you can break it into a Spear And just a lot of other melee changes

u/LardFan373d ago

Would it last longer? Yes. Would it do damage? No. Because of the curve a shovel do minuscule damage from a stabbing motion. The blade would also get stuck a lot. At that point it would be better to step on the handle until it breaks and use it like a normal spear.

1

u/Andre273d ago

I think the ideal in terms of damage and durability if using a shovel as a weapon would be to use it as an axe basically, at least if you dont make modifications to it. So bash with the edge. Itd be less durable than a stabbing motion but likely more so than a flat bash, and itd be significantly more useful as a weapon in comparison to either imo.

1

u/Malu1997Zombie Killer3d ago

Ok I'll give ya the shovel, but why does the wrench have low durability? Hell, I wouldn't even know HOW a wrench could even break to the point of not being able to smash heads, it's a solid hunk of metal.

3

u/LKCRahl3d agoedited 3d ago

Have you seen the quality of American tools? Granted the game is kinda in a time where quality was a bit better, US standards have dropped significantly post Vietnam War and there are several instances where the average brand has stress failure or utter failure before reaching industry break points.

This isn’t just tools, it’s everything from construction standards to ammunition quality.

2

u/Malu1997Zombie Killer3d ago

I honestly can't think of how you could ever make this wrong. And in addition to that, as you said it's 1993.

2

u/LKCRahl3d ago

Nickel base with “steel” paint. It’s a common enough issue of fake quality and breaks on just simple things you’d expect it to perform. Other issue is lead or improper alloy smelting. I’ve seen and collected various tools of various quality from different countries and you’d be surprised how much of a difference you can get.

Most tools post 1960s aren’t iron or steel, they’re generally some form of nickel alloy for the most common and cheapest brands. Aluminium also spikes in popularity but the biggest change is casting.

Tools are generally cast as a single chunk in mass moulds but some are assembled with hollow voids in them to save weight and material while others have stress failure issues in their limbs. Others based on failure of ergonomic design develop stress fractures easily just above the grip point and break if subjected to even normal levels of trauma (such as swinging it at a wall).

1

u/Malu1997Zombie Killer3d ago

I'll take your word for it as I don't have much wrench experience, I only have a set of steel wrenches that has lasted me forever so I never had to deal with cheap ones. I guess PZ world only has the really sh*t ones, though what actually happens to said cheap ones? Do they snap? Bend?

2

u/LKCRahl3d ago

Worst I’ve seen was a stress detonation (thing literally exploded when doing a stress pneumatic wrench test at 30% of its listed PSI threshold).

Most start to warp/bend. Stress cracks are common but sometimes it’s just the paint chipping. Breakage failures at weak points like the teeth or in combi tools where they articulate but that’s to be expected.

While it is a videogame and balance is sometimes arbitrary, it ironically isn’t entirely fictional that certain tools in comparison to others are just dogsh*t for probably all the wrong reasons lol.

Personally, the best tools I’ve ever gotten were from Japan, Germany, and Ukraine.

1

u/Malu1997Zombie Killer3d ago

I definitely didn't think wrenches could explode lmao, interesting. Though I guess my question should have been "what sort of failure can a wrench have that makes it unsuitable to bash zed heads?"

2

u/LKCRahl3d ago

Warpage. Considering base game blood and saliva are infection vectors, anything that ergonomically makes it dangerous to you increases risk of injury and therefore infection.

Also just general pain. If you’ve ever taken something simple like a hammer, wrench, and screwdriver and tried to stab it into concrete, your hand gets different levels of pain from the impact based on the ergonomic design. As the item warps or outright breaks, that puts further stress on fulcrum points and at a certain level, you could get shrapnel from the item into your hand.

In general, this is why even weapons rarely have short shafts or grips unless they’re specifically stabbing in mind. Look at batons, cudgels, or odd weapons like the sword breaker. Their common design is massive grips and/or handguards and they’re heavily reinforced or coated with softer material to reduce trauma to your hand.

1

u/Malu1997Zombie Killer3d ago

Thanks for your answer, it was really interesting. I never thought about it but yeah, now that I think about it hammering sh*t is already uncomfortable enough on my hands, I don't want to imagine a warped piece of metal.

3

u/Nate23223d ago

Axes are made to be swung at things while shovels are not.

3

u/Andre273d ago

No definitely not. First of all there is a lot more area on the shovel head than there is on an axe head, and the shovel head is thinner and less durable in comparison as well. So unlike with an axe where you'd almost never expect to break the axe head itself, the shovelhead would be decently likely to just bend and break.

Ontop of that the shaft on a shovel will be longer and likely not constructed in as durable of a shape, making it more likely to break as well, shafts for a shovel are generally round, whereas on an axe its thicker in the direction of the head, in an oval sort of shape, giving you more material and therefore durability against impacts in that direction.

And then you also have the way in which the shafts are attached. For a shovel its a pretty small attachment point thats also not very durable in high force bashing motion and its liable to get malformed and break both the wood and metal at the attachment point. Whereas in an axe the shaft goes all the way through the head, ultimately the point of attachment or near is still the weakest spot and the most likely way an axe shaft will break, but when it does that isnt liable to break the axe head itself unlike the attachment hole on a shovelhead.

Combine these factors and an axe will be far more durable than a shovel when used to bash zombies.

Why does the shovel have low durability compared to other melee weapons? - r/projectzomboid (2024)
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